Gil-Galad: a chicken?

[tehta]

And now for something completely different...

Gil-Galad. I have found yet another reason to be confused regarding his parentage.
Other than this, I mean.
I guess most people around here would vote against Fingon, because of Fingon/Maedhros Christopher Tolkien said this was a mistake, and it should have been Orodreth. However, I recently re-read the Children of Hurin (for Mablung reasons, because Turin gives me a headache), and encountered this:

Then Túrin ... said to [Finduilas]: ‘I had a sister, Lalaith, or so I named her; and of her you put me in mind. But Lalaith was a child, a yellow flower in the green grass of spring; and had she lived she would now, maybe, have become dimmed with grief. But you are queenly, and as a golden tree; I would I had a sister so fair.’

‘But you are kingly,’ said she, ‘even as the lords of the people of Fingolfin; I would I had a brother so valiant.

Which is of course a little ironic, with all the mixing of sibling/sexual affection and the resulting foreshadowing, however: I would I had a brother so valiant? What about poor Ereinion?

I guess we have three options:
* Gil-Galad is not Finduilas' brother at all.
* Gil-Galad has not been born yet, during this conversation. (which, since his father is about to take the fast boat to Mandos at this point, would make him a posthumous baby. And actually, I sort of like this, hmm. It even goes well with the name "scion of kings.")
* Gil-Galad has been born, but has been sent away, and is, at this point in his life, a chicken. (I like this even more, because I like ruining noble Elves' reputations.)

Anyway, several plot-bunnies here!

Comments

[lenine2.livejournal.com]

For the vast majority of my life the word "scion" had to do with grafting rose plants. I know it makes no sense, but "scion of kings" makes me imagine GG as a thorny branch grafted onto Fingon's back.

Anyway, I like option #2, the posthumous baby. It would make GG's own arrival at Mandos pretty interesting.

[tehta.livejournal.com]

Still wondering how he might have been conceived, though. I mean, finduilas clearly had no mother to guide her during the Turin mess.

[anna-wing.livejournal.com]

His mother was with him at the Havens? In Elf terms, the Turin mess happened very fast, in just a few years. She might just have gone off to visit her son for a couple of decades and got cut off when the war re-started.

[tehta.livejournal.com]

I posted a new theory in response to wulfila.

[wulfila.livejournal.com]

I like the "posthumous baby" version, but the non-valiant brother idea is quite amusing, too, (especially if Gil-Galad has not been sent away at all, but is listening behind a curtain at this point, and Finduilas is fully aware of this). Another possibility might be, of course, that Gil-Galad is sort of a Fabius Maximus Cunctator of his people and mistaken for a coward because he is cautious instead of following the new, more aggressive strategy that is becoming popular in Nargothrond at the time (much to the detriment of the place and its denizens).

[tehta.livejournal.com]

Indeed.

Of course, orodreth himself was of the cautious type, but not very effective with it.

[tehta.livejournal.com]

Ok, new idea:
GG IS Finduilas.
After the whole Turin disaster, she decides that waiting around for a valorous hero to save her - or her people - is not a good plan. Better to be a sensible hero oneself. And because the Noldor are sexist, she decides to do this in male disguise, claiming to have been sent away for safety (which sounds like something Orodreth would do). She can pass any family-oriented test, because she knows the family... And almost everyone who watched her grow up as herself is dead.

Note that this explains GGs childlessness, both because it would be awkward, and because she might be sick of romance by this point.

Not your finduilas, I know, but a fun bunny...

[lenine2.livejournal.com]

Brilliant!

[wulfila.livejournal.com]

I like that idea a lot, even from the perspective of my fanfic universe.

I suspect now that my Finduilas is not Finduilas at all, but her half-sister* who looked vaguely similar and grasped the chance to act on her hitherto unacknowledged feelings for Gwindor when the chance presented itself. She hadn't done so in the past because she was Finduilas' best friend ever. Therefore, she also agreed to play Finduilas' role for a while in the end phase of Nargothrond so that the real Finduilas, disgusted with the inept strategists around her, could leave in male disguise to organize help. She had not arrived anywhere yet when the sack of Nargothrond happened, and realizing her chance, she did what you suggested and decided to play the role of Gil-Galad from then on.

As for "my Finduilas" ... Of course, the outlaws were not ready to tell the truth (which would make "The Truth of Tales" an even more ironic title), because the touching story of an elven princess fallen on hard times was a better means of arousing Grimsel's pity than the tale of the bastard daughter who seduced her legitimate sister's paramour.

* As we have established somewhere upthread that elves might have "open relationships", illegitimate children of their royalty aren't out of the question any more, either.

[tehta.livejournal.com]

The plot thickens!

But are you sure Gwindor is Gwindor? And not *his* other brother? Or maybe his half-sister?

[wulfila.livejournal.com]

You're perfectly right. He shall be referred to as "the alleged Gwindor" henceforward.

[rcfinch.livejournal.com]

Or he was a little kid, too small to qualify as being 'valiant', which unlike 'courageous', has a somewhat soldierly ring to it.

[tehta.livejournal.com]

I did think about that... And of course I am being silly here, picking at small shades of meaning, but if I valued valour, and had a sibling with valorous potential, I would say, "I wish my brother would grow up to be like you," not act as if a valorous brother were currently an impossibility.

[rcfinch.livejournal.com]

In which case this sentence probably precedes Tolkien's decision to make G-g her brother. The headache-inducing problem here is that all the textual variants are impossible to date.

[tehta.livejournal.com]

Yes, but it's fun to make up random explanations... And breed plot bunnies in the process.

[heartofoshun.livejournal.com]

‘But you are kingly,’ said she, ‘even as the lords of the people of Fingolfin; I would I had a brother so valiant.

Oi! Poor Gil-galad! That cracks me up. Makes me laugh! But I do like Gil-galad and like to think he was a good king and a brave one. I tend to lean in the opposite direction of thinking that the anti-heroes of The Silmarillion, all of the children of Feanor and Fingolfin (with the exception of maybe Turgon--who always struck me as kind of dull) were given a worse reputation than they deserved.

I am lazy and stuck with the original version I first read in The Silmarillion that Fingon was the father of Gil-galad. I momentarily struggled with Christopher Tolkien's opinion that perhaps he should have used the idea of Orodreth as Gil-galad's dad. I just never had strong positive feelings for Orodreth--he seemed to lose things that other people struggled to build. And, despite being fairly obsessed with writing a continuing history of Fingon/Maedhros, I like the idea of Fingon having a descendant. (I am writing a novel which recounts how Fingon conceived Gil-galad with a lot of help from Maedhros. Gives me a chance to write a threesome involved Fingon and Maedhros. Kind of tacky maybe, but a lot of fun. I can put in all kinds of interesting sex scenes and insecurities, jealousies, and speculation about Fingon being gay and Maedhros bisexual but who really has eyes only for Fingon. Lot of fun plot lines to explore.)

[tehta.livejournal.com]

Yes, I know threesomes and other weird situations are fun to write/read!

And I am sure gg was a good king. This is canon! It's just fun to imagine he started out a bit problematic as a child.

But you know, I am always a bit confused by "the feanorians/fingolfians have a bad reputation that needs rescuing". I mean, they seem pretty generally beloved, except maybe for some of the feanorian Cs. Maybe it's just my corner of fandom, but who isn't impressed by Fingon or Maedhros, even on a first Silk reading?

[heartofoshun.livejournal.com]

It is the same for my corner of the fandom as well. But I always get the feeling that Tolkien in rolling around in his grave complainting, "No! no! you guys got it all wrong! You're not supposed to love them so much. They did bad things! They are being justly punished by that nasty old Namo for having terrible judgment. You are supposed to feel sympathetic for Orodreth and maybe Finrod just a little." (I do like Finrod, quite a bit actually.)

[tehta.livejournal.com]

I guess I do not see it that way: I think Tolkien intended for us to see the elder Feanorians as classic tragic heroes, both admirable and flawed. Same for Turin. They do all get punished for their terrible judgment, but the glamour we as readers feel is there for a reason... And is echoed by many worthy characters in-story.

And orodreth is presented quite unsympathetically, I think, in the Narn.

[sirielle.livejournal.com]

I believe this simply follows the Silmarillion "mistake", so GG being son of Fingon cannot be Finduilas' brother.

[tehta.livejournal.com]

Yeah, you're right. It just amuses me.

[fanged-geranium.livejournal.com]

Nice to see you around again! I assumed she meant that she thought Gil-galad was being a bit chicken and opposing Turin's policy of going out to fight - possibly influenced by her wanting to impress Turin - but I like your theory #2 as well.

[tehta.livejournal.com]

That's pretty harsh, though.
I guess Orodreth!Ereinion would be hiding in the Havens at this point, based on, er, some story notes in HoME. (Can't check as travelling.) So she could be speaking about that.

[fanged-geranium.livejournal.com]

Well, if he's hiding at the havens, no wonder Finduilas isn't impressed! But it is very harsh, especially if Gil-galad is only a kid and sent away by Orodreth.

[ithilwen.livejournal.com]

Nibble away, plot-bunnies! You'll bring down your resisting prey sooner or later! :D

[tehta.livejournal.com]

Oh, I am already writing several things. Mostly for slashy Santa, but with plot and stuff.

[anna-wing.livejournal.com]

(a) He could simply be very young at this point.

(b) Based on the story, Finduilas is not very bright, and has rather poor judgement of people, so her views on what her brother is like are probably inaccurate.