tehta: (stained glass tree)
[personal profile] tehta
Various comments I have received in response to my whiny post have led me to make the following conclusions:

  • Pretty much everyone sees their own views as a minority opinion, and their own fics as of specialized interest only.
  • It is very hard to determine who is right about this, because the evidence we have (meta discussions, fics, and fic comments) are a very biased sample of views-at-large, and are often emitted in highly correlated clusters.
  • Many (most?) people enjoy well-written stories that conflict with their own headcanon, but some of those same people are made uncomfortable by impassioned meta that conveys the same opinions.
  • I should stop stressing out about this and just write stuff.

Date: 2013-05-13 12:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tehta.livejournal.com
But that pig is totally judging me.

Date: 2013-05-13 01:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lenine2.livejournal.com
The pig always judges. Ignore him.

Date: 2013-05-12 11:37 pm (UTC)
moetushie: Beaton cartoon - a sexy revolution. (Default)
From: [personal profile] moetushie
I missed the original discussion, but yes, I agree. Especially about Morgoth/Sauron when Ungoliant/Morgoth is *clearly* the superior ship. I mean, she tries to eat him! If that's not Spider for 'I love you' I don't know what is.

Actually, I never read blocks of text on Tumblr -- whether it be headcanons or meta in general, or fic. I just can't -- the tiny font, the usually impossible background. Well, I could add /mobile to the end of the URL but that's an extra step I don't want to do. D:

Date: 2013-05-13 12:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tehta.livejournal.com
Eh, those ships are not contradictory. Not if one interprets Morgoth as flighty and promiscuous. I will now go do a meta post about this headcanon of mine.

Anyway, I think you are very wise.

Date: 2013-05-13 03:33 am (UTC)
moetushie: Beaton cartoon - a sexy revolution. (Default)
From: [personal profile] moetushie
Not necessarily! The ship has definite elements of non-con. Morgoth doesn't *want* to be eaten, after all.

Make sure your meta post is in tiny, 7 point font, dark grey on lighter grey lettering, and with an animated background. Then, and only then, will you know that you are in with the cool kids, k?

Date: 2013-05-13 07:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tehta.livejournal.com
Pah! How dare you contradict my headcanon? Morgoth loves that sort of thing. Note how he's always trying to get Tulkas to beat him up?

I would like to use a font that looks like cirth. Is that OK? I need to display my hate for the Feanorians.

Date: 2013-05-13 10:33 pm (UTC)
moetushie: Beaton cartoon - a sexy revolution. (Default)
From: [personal profile] moetushie
How dare you, madam! My headcanon has ALL the Valar being more-or-less asexual, based on my close reading of the text, i.e. I read bits of the HoMe once without giving up in despair.

How could you hate the Feanorians when they're the most interesting characters in the entire book!? All their misdeeds can be blamed on Maedhros' PSTD! You're so insensitive, ugh!

Date: 2013-05-13 10:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tehta.livejournal.com
I hate the Feanorians because several of them are described as attractive or skilled, so liking them is tantamount to encouraging privilege, elitism, and oppression. Any ethical, enlightened person will ignore them and focus instead on obscure, vaguely ethnic OCs lacking both agency and unrealistically fabulous hair.

Oh and what is up with their motivation!?! They spend the whole book waving SWORDS at each other and searching for their FAMILY JEWELS! The phallocentrism of it all makes me sick.

Morgoth, on the other hand, is a woobie who never knew a mother's love.

Date: 2013-05-14 01:24 am (UTC)
moetushie: Beaton cartoon - a sexy revolution. (Default)
From: [personal profile] moetushie
I have it on good authority (that is to say, my own) that not stanning Maedhros is akin to ableism. SO THERE, ABLEIST.

Oh, you wanna go there?! Everyone waves their swords around! Like, no one talks about Gil-galad's GINORMOUS SPEAR!!! I mean, he's obviously compensating for the fact that he doesn't know who his father is.

Morgoth is a woobie-breaker, not a woobie himself. *Sniffs*

Date: 2013-05-14 08:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tehta.livejournal.com
You might have been right about the ableism... but I currently have a HAND INJURY! I have to wear athletic tape on a finger, and go to physio, and everything! This means that I am one of the hand-challenged myself, and one always gets a free pass on hate/disgust/mocking laughter directed at members of one's own group.

Oh an you are right about Gil-galad. I hate him anyway because in my headcanon he was once rude to a seamstress.
Edited Date: 2013-05-14 08:04 pm (UTC)

Date: 2013-05-14 08:50 pm (UTC)
moetushie: Beaton cartoon - a sexy revolution. (Default)
From: [personal profile] moetushie
Well, I once broke the middle finger of my left (and dominant) hand -- putting it out of commission for six months -- so I know exactly the pain and suffering Maedhros felt, during the entirety of the First Age. And the finger still hurts when it's going to rain, THEREFORE, I am free to pour SCORN and DERISION on YOUR HEAD. >:)

(I'm sorry about your hand btw! That sucks.)

Lbr, no one cares about Gil-galad or his spear except maybe Elrond's sad boners about the same. (THAT IS MY HEADCANON YOU CAN'T TOUCH IT.)

Date: 2013-05-13 02:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tyellas.livejournal.com
I am totally shipping Ungoliant/Morgoth now.

Date: 2013-05-13 03:36 am (UTC)
moetushie: Beaton cartoon - a sexy revolution. (Default)
From: [personal profile] moetushie
As you should! Where's the fic?

Date: 2013-05-13 07:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tehta.livejournal.com
You would be the perfect person to write this, you know.

Date: 2013-05-13 02:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ladyelleth.livejournal.com
Basically. I've also come across two people who don't enjoy the frantic headcanon-ing very much because it doesn't fit their creative fannishness - they draw rather than write meta or fic, and I do wonder if that doesn't tie in with Oshun's point about wariness outside the chosen fannish media... meta, even when it's really just an elaboration on the personal understanding of canon feels somewhat harder to dismiss because it is (or seems) more factual.

Sorry. Rambly thoughts.

Date: 2013-05-13 10:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tehta.livejournal.com
Good thoughts!

I think meta might feel more factual than fic because, when reading a story, most people know that the authorial voice does not necessarily represent the opinions of the author? Even in POVs less limited than a very close third- or first-person. An essay does not really have that extra level of distancing.

Interesting point about artists, though.

Date: 2013-05-13 02:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tyellas.livejournal.com
I feel like I'm the queen of headcanon! But I enjoy others' stories very much, especially about obscure characters I like. Does this make any sense? Or is it the very definition of being a Silmarillion fanficcer?

Date: 2013-05-13 07:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tehta.livejournal.com
I think people do tend to enjoy variety and surprises in well-written fic. The more interesting question would be: would you enjoy a 4k word essay on explaining how, e.g., Pengolod was obviously an uneducated sycophant with a huge chip on his shoulder arising from the fact that he was clearly Penlod's bastard child?

No wait, that sounds pretty interesting actually.

Date: 2013-05-13 05:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wulfila.livejournal.com
Yes, stop stressing out and write.

And I agree that impassioned meta is the problem - it is quite normal that different people interpret things differently (see that last meme of yours, with me thinking that one situation was at least quietly hilarious, while you didn't see what could be remotely funny about it). Things get stressful and confusing as soon as this goes from "I disagree" to "I disagree and will grab everyone by the throat now to make them accept my interpretation as the one and only possibility, because Voronwe likes strawberry pie better than baked apples, and nobody should fail to accept the vast (read: usually very flimsy) canonical evidence that my view is based on".

Date: 2013-05-13 07:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tehta.livejournal.com
But everybody knows Gondolin was too cold for strawberries! I guess that is why Vorry left.

(Re: the meme: I guess the issue was less that I thought this could not be hilarious, but because it's headcanon to me that G and E end up having a bit of an unstated struggle with Turgon over the legitimacy of their relationship.)

Date: 2013-05-13 07:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wulfila.livejournal.com
But everybody knows Gondolin was too cold for strawberries!

Everybody but Vintner!Glorfindel.

(And don't worry meme-wise - this was only the most recent example that came to mind, not an attempt to discuss the matter to death).

Date: 2013-05-13 06:40 am (UTC)
ext_7009: (hedgehogs)
From: [identity profile] alex-beecroft.livejournal.com
"I should stop stressing out about this and just write stuff" is pretty much the answer to all writing related questions :)

Date: 2013-05-13 07:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tehta.livejournal.com
I bet the generalized version, "I should stop stressing and do X", works just as well.
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